I have received many enquiries bout the repetitive "grinding" noise one can here in the post; Sunday, January 4, 2015.
Well, glad you ask, and now take a seat and get prepared to be bored to tears.......
The Hydropneumatic (no it's not air) suspension that Citroen developed in the 40's and that saw it's full deployment in all its glory in 1955 on the Citroen DS (like the one in this Blog), was a true marvel of engineering; that it also powered the brakes, power-steering (yes, in 1955) and c-matic (manual-clutchless transmission) adds to its awe.
It is a constant flow system, that is, the pump is constantly turning, with oil flowing through the system and with a valve that opens at the required pressure to re-pressurise the accumulator; off-which the system relies to maintain pressurisation. This 7 piston pump is driven by the camshaft. So, in other words, the pump is constantly turning, most of the time under no pressure.
Being electric, we needed to save as much battery power as possible, so a constantly powered second motor (not the main propulsion motor), but a small high-torque unit, was not ideal. We re-engineered the system to include a high-pressure (around 1000psi) pressure-switch that at the right pressure, turned-off the electric motor and restarted it as the pressure fell to the lower-limit of pressure required.
So that "grinding" noise is a little, low-rev, high-torque motor that cuts-in at the right moment to repressurise the accumulator, maintaining the system at optimal pressure, under any condition.
And yes, the magnificent 1974 Citroen DSev is still running great (not without ongoing enhancements) and is now being prepared to travel overseas for European touring.
Well, glad you ask, and now take a seat and get prepared to be bored to tears.......
The Hydropneumatic (no it's not air) suspension that Citroen developed in the 40's and that saw it's full deployment in all its glory in 1955 on the Citroen DS (like the one in this Blog), was a true marvel of engineering; that it also powered the brakes, power-steering (yes, in 1955) and c-matic (manual-clutchless transmission) adds to its awe.
It is a constant flow system, that is, the pump is constantly turning, with oil flowing through the system and with a valve that opens at the required pressure to re-pressurise the accumulator; off-which the system relies to maintain pressurisation. This 7 piston pump is driven by the camshaft. So, in other words, the pump is constantly turning, most of the time under no pressure.
Being electric, we needed to save as much battery power as possible, so a constantly powered second motor (not the main propulsion motor), but a small high-torque unit, was not ideal. We re-engineered the system to include a high-pressure (around 1000psi) pressure-switch that at the right pressure, turned-off the electric motor and restarted it as the pressure fell to the lower-limit of pressure required.
So that "grinding" noise is a little, low-rev, high-torque motor that cuts-in at the right moment to repressurise the accumulator, maintaining the system at optimal pressure, under any condition.
And yes, the magnificent 1974 Citroen DSev is still running great (not without ongoing enhancements) and is now being prepared to travel overseas for European touring.
Hi Aldo, I've been reading your blog of your Citroen conversion with great interest. I think I will soon be getting the Citroen EV that you referenced back when you started this project. I believe it may be the only one in N. America. I'm wondering if you would be open to seeking your advice as I attempt to put it back on the road again? I'm guessing it will be a long process. It will be my first EV and I'm not a Citroen guy so I really am jumping in the deep end.
ReplyDeleteHey Kevin, Apologies for my delayed response. Unfortunately the blog does not alert me when I get messages. More than happy to share my learnings with you. This was my first EV conversion but I did have some amatuer experience on Citroens having owned them in the past. COntact me on aldogrech55@gmail.com, if you prefer. Aldo.
DeleteThanks
DeleteHad a '68 DS19, with auto clutch - same as pedal clutch, without the pedal. The main pump was constantly belt-driven, but only "worked" when building pressure. The noise sounded like "jingle, jingle, slosh, slosh".The "water" pump/fan and alternator were belt-driven off the camshaft There was a separate"little" pump to power the gear shift.
ReplyDeleteHey Omar, Just saw your message. Apologies for my tardy response. How can I help? Aldo.
DeleteWe have a 1974 in a very good condition. No rust original paint etc.
ReplyDeleteWhat would be the possibility to convert it as a fully Electric vehicle.
Maybe Tesla
Hi Roger, Now a Tesla powered Citroen DS would be just awesome. The motor layout in a Tesla is quite wide and would be difficult to fit in the narrow engine space in the DS. But there is nothing that is insurmountable given money and time. Let me know if I can help. Aldo.
ReplyDeleteAldo, the small Model S motor fits fine in the front. I have a conversion underway using 12 model S packs. 8 of them fit in the floor space with another 4 going into the engine compartment. It will probably have the lowest centre of gravity of any DS.
DeleteHi Festerfeet,
DeleteDo you have images/videos of your DS?
I'm greatly interested!
Thank you!
curious to know if you considered C5/C6 electric pump? cheers
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWe repair and replace ABS sensors, abs ring, abs pump for all makes and models in Reading, United Kingdom.We also provide free collection and Delivery service from your home or place of work.
Hi Aldo,
ReplyDeleteOnly just discovered your project , hope all going well for you
I am embarking on a similar odyssey which also has the Citroen hydropneumatic complication, see teslarr.com
My question is did you consider a direct drive hydraulic pump eg Citroen c5 eg https://en.hl24.eu/wrn.php?daten=534941&gclid=CjwKCAjw5pPnBRBJEiwAULZKvsbdo3LDkZBeTc_i9RTr-ylz9w64MZrRd3kMZ3FQvgYrqJVVdd2X0RoCQEIQAvD_BwE if so what problem did you see with this
Hi Jetpax,
ReplyDeleteI have a Citroen DS that is being converted and renovated by Heritage Motorsport Ltd in the UK. They think they have a solution to the hydraulics that can avoid the switching. Having had a look at your site which is an amazing and ambitious project, you might want to contact them to discuss. Contact there is: lee@heritagemotorsportltd.co.uk
Hello Aldo, I came upon your site upon searching the web for past DS conversions. I'm in the planning stage of converting a yet to be purchased DS, probably a 1969 DS 21, in Europe. It's 2020 and I suspect you have some thoughts for improvements on your build, if only because the tech has evolved over the years and the batteries have become smaller and more powerful (I plan to use Tesla batteries for example). One idea is to install 4 motors (1 per wheel) and do away with the gearbox... I'd really appreciate your input, thank you.
ReplyDeleteApologies for the delayed response. Blogger does not update me when I get messages. Four motors! Interesting approach. Never considered it as I wanted to keep the suspension original and did not want to put more unsprung weight. Interested to know what came out of your plan.
Delete